Discussion:
Precedent Aeronca Champ 1/4 scale
(too old to reply)
Jon-Magne Johansen
2005-01-26 17:21:40 UTC
Permalink
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit. The
previous owner had partially built the fuselage, but it is not finished.
I did not get the building manual, so i do not have much information of this
kit.
What size of engine will be suitable? I have 3 engines that maybe will fit;
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion

Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good idea to
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
D***@aol.com
2005-01-26 19:11:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
The 120 glow 4-stroke will be too small. The 40cc gasoline (PETROL)
engine will be too large. I think the 21 cc gasoline engine will be a
prefect match. It will fly the plane in a very scale-like manner.
You'll also probably need the nose weight the weedeater-type will
provide.
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good idea to
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
This plane isn't very aerobatic or fast. Unless it seems REALLY weak,
leave it as is.
Philip Rawson
2005-01-27 02:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by D***@aol.com
This plane isn't very aerobatic or fast. Unless it seems REALLY weak,
leave it as is.
Mine was... ever seen a Champ prop-hang? or do a rolling circle... or an
inverted low pass 3' off the runway? Granted mine had a couple of tweaks...
changed the wing section and fitted a 45cc petrol...

--
Philip Rawson

www.flymodels.co.uk
www.aeromodeller.org

<***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dr1
2005-01-27 19:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Rawson
Mine was... ever seen a Champ prop-hang? or do a rolling circle... or an
inverted low pass 3' off the runway? Granted mine had a couple of tweaks...
changed the wing section and fitted a 45cc petrol...
Are these prototypical, scale-like maneuvers the full size Aeronca
could perform?
Philip Rawson
2005-01-28 01:52:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Rawson
Post by Philip Rawson
Mine was... ever seen a Champ prop-hang? or do a rolling circle... or
an
Post by Philip Rawson
inverted low pass 3' off the runway? Granted mine had a couple of
tweaks...
Post by Philip Rawson
changed the wing section and fitted a 45cc petrol...
Are these prototypical, scale-like maneuvers the full size Aeronca
could perform?
Don't suppose so... then again, I've never had a go in a full size one.



--
Philip Rawson

www.flymodels.co.uk
www.aeromodeller.org
Storm's Hamburgers
2005-01-28 02:01:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Rawson
Post by Philip Rawson
Post by Philip Rawson
Mine was... ever seen a Champ prop-hang? or do a rolling circle... or
an
Post by Philip Rawson
inverted low pass 3' off the runway? Granted mine had a couple of
tweaks...
Post by Philip Rawson
changed the wing section and fitted a 45cc petrol...
Are these prototypical, scale-like maneuvers the full size Aeronca
could perform?
Don't suppose so... then again, I've never had a go in a full size one.
--
Philip Rawson
www.flymodels.co.uk
www.aeromodeller.org
I wonder what current full scale planes can prop hang?
mk
John Alt
2005-01-28 15:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Storm's Hamburgers
I wonder what current full scale planes can prop hang?
mk
Jimmy Franklin's Waco can, but I don't know if "prop hang" is technically
correct. Works for me, though :)
Keith Schiffner
2005-01-28 22:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Alt
Post by Storm's Hamburgers
I wonder what current full scale planes can prop hang?
mk
Jimmy Franklin's Waco can, but I don't know if "prop hang"
is technically
correct. Works for me, though :)
IIRC the late Turbo Raven could...right up until the gear
box failed and it pancaked doing a vertical landing.
--
Nefarious Necrologist 42nd Degree
Some people ride, some just like to show off their butt
jewelry once in a while.
Dum vivimus, vivamus
<:(3 )3~ <:(3 )3~ <:(3 )~ <:(3 )~
D***@yahoo.com
2005-01-29 01:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Are these prototypical, scale-like maneuvers the full size­ Aeronca
could perform?
Don't suppose so... then again, I've never had a go in a ful­l size
one.

The Aeronca 7AC Champ had 65 hp, making it a slow (85 mph) and
low (poor climb) airplane. No aerobatics other than spins; there wasn't
enough power to get serious. Even with 85 hp it wasn't aerobatic. The
most powerful brothers to this airplane have 180 hp and would never
prop-hang.

Dan (lots of real Champ time)
Paul Ryan
2005-02-04 04:26:50 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
D***@yahoo.com
2005-02-04 16:47:42 UTC
Permalink
I think it takes a power to weight ratio of about >7 lb/hp (
actually
a weight to power ratio...) to climb vertically
(continuously), and
probably less than five lb/hp to be comfortable for >hovering, torque
rolls, etc.
Takes an even better weight-to HP ratio than that. An aircraft
engine might be expected to produce three or four pounds of thrust per
hp at full throttle. Even the newest really powerful aerobatic
airplanes with 400 hp or so and grossing around 1800 lb (at a guess)
can't hover or maintain vertical climb. The best I've seen was the YAK
55 with the geared 360 hp radial, and it could do some awesome stuff.
The gearing of the prop does it: a large-diameter, slow-turning prop
gets more thrust per hp, while allowing the engine to rev higher and
generate more horses, since hp is a function of torque x RPM. And a
geared engine produces more hp per pound of engine weight, so the
airplane can be lighter.

Dan
Paul Ryan
2005-02-05 07:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Actually- getting back to which planes can torque roll- didn't the
Suhkoi prove capable of it in the hands of that Lithuanian pilot whose
name I forget, or never knew. He did a stunt where he'd fly under
these stone bridges inverted in Lith. or Russia, then torque roll for a
while low over the water, then climb out vertically. Try that...
Paul
Post by Paul Ryan
I think it takes a power to weight ratio of about >7 lb/hp (
actually
a weight to power ratio...) to climb vertically
(continuously), and
probably less than five lb/hp to be comfortable for >hovering, torque
rolls, etc.
Takes an even better weight-to HP ratio than that. An aircraft
engine might be expected to produce three or four pounds of thrust per
hp at full throttle. Even the newest really powerful aerobatic
airplanes with 400 hp or so and grossing around 1800 lb (at a guess)
can't hover or maintain vertical climb. The best I've seen was the YAK
55 with the geared 360 hp radial, and it could do some awesome stuff.
The gearing of the prop does it: a large-diameter, slow-turning prop
gets more thrust per hp, while allowing the engine to rev higher and
generate more horses, since hp is a function of torque x RPM. And a
geared engine produces more hp per pound of engine weight, so the
airplane can be lighter.
Dan
Algimantas
2009-03-10 12:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ryan
Lithuanian pilot
Jurgis Kairys http://www.jkairys.com

--
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Charlie Funk
2005-01-27 15:00:36 UTC
Permalink
The 120 glow 4-stroke will be too small. The 40cc gasoline (PETROL) engine
will be too large. I think the 21 cc gasoline engine will be a prefect
match.

????

21cc is 1.28 ci. The 120 glow is 1.2 ci. Is the gasoline fueled 1.28
really that much more powerful than the 120 4-stroke?
--
Charlie Funk
Just Cruisin' Plus
800 888-0922
615 833-0922
www.justcruisinplus.com
We prefer the MasterCard card
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
The 120 glow 4-stroke will be too small. The 40cc gasoline (PETROL)
engine will be too large. I think the 21 cc gasoline engine will be a
prefect match. It will fly the plane in a very scale-like manner.
You'll also probably need the nose weight the weedeater-type will
provide.
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good
idea to
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
This plane isn't very aerobatic or fast. Unless it seems REALLY weak,
leave it as is.
Dr1
2005-01-27 19:25:02 UTC
Permalink
The weedeater is not more powerful, but it will allow you to swing a
larger, flatter pitch prop at a lower RPM. Perfect for this plane.
Philip Rawson
2005-01-27 01:59:31 UTC
Permalink
I built one and fitted a Zenoah 45. It needed about 10oz of lead in the tail
to balance it... It's still giving good service as a glider tug. I would say
a Zenoah 26 would suit the plane perfectly. you should consider either the
120 4 stroke or the 21cc petrol.

As for the wing joiners... they're fine as the wing struts take most of the
flight loads. I used 8mm aluminium alloy tubes for the struts, anchoring
them with some hefty brackets into the wings. Similarly the fixing to the
fuselage was stronger than the plan as well.

--
Philip Rawson

www.flymodels.co.uk
www.aeromodeller.org
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit. The
previous owner had partially built the fuselage, but it is not finished.
I did not get the building manual, so i do not have much information of this
kit.
What size of engine will be suitable? I have 3 engines that maybe will fit;
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good idea to
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
TNA
2005-01-27 10:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit. The
previous owner had partially built the fuselage, but it is not finished.
I did not get the building manual, so i do not have much information of this
kit.
What size of engine will be suitable? I have 3 engines that maybe will fit;
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good idea to
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
Hei Jon-Magne!

I have a Champ in similar state... I do have the the building manual though.
I could scan it if you're interrested.
Jon-Magne Johansen
2005-01-27 15:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Yes, that would have been nice. Thanks.
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit. The
previous owner had partially built the fuselage, but it is not finished.
I did not get the building manual, so i do not have much information of
this
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
kit.
What size of engine will be suitable? I have 3 engines that maybe will
fit;
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good idea to
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
Hei Jon-Magne!
I have a Champ in similar state... I do have the the building manual though.
I could scan it if you're interrested.
bentleyblower
2009-03-26 14:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Dear Sir

Is there any possibility that you still have the build manual for thi
kit,
as I have bought a 1/4 scale kit on e-bay and although it would appear
to be complete, I see that there is no building manual and no engin
cowling.

If a build manual was available, I would be pleased to repay an
expense that you may have in copying it.

Regards and thanks.

John Sangster
Bix House
27 Windsor Road
Bray
Berkshire
SL6 2EW
U.K.
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
Yes, that would have been nice. Thanks.
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit
The
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
previous owner had partially built the fuselage, but it is no
finished.
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
I did not get the building manual, so i do not have much informatio
of
Post by TNA
this
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
kit.
What size of engine will be suitable? I have 3 engines that mayb
will
Post by TNA
fit;
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a goo
idea to
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
Hei Jon-Magne!
I have a Champ in similar state... I do have the the building manual though.
I could scan it if you're interrested.
--
bentleyblowe
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g***@btinternet.com
2014-02-19 15:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
Yes, that would have been nice. Thanks.
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit. The
previous owner had partially built the fuselage, but it is not finished.
I did not get the building manual, so i do not have much information of
this
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
kit.
Hi,
Did you get a copy of the manual.
If so could you forward a copy to me.
I will gladly cover any costs.
Best wishes
Graeme
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
What size of engine will be suitable? I have 3 engines that maybe will
fit;
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good idea to
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
Hei Jon-Magne!
I have a Champ in similar state... I do have the the building manual though.
I could scan it if you're interrested.
hangfire
2010-08-06 12:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by TNA
I have a Champ in similar state... I do have the the building manua
though.
I could scan it if you're interrested.
I'm in dire need of that building manual myself. Could you scan one fo
me

--
hangfir
g***@btinternet.com
2014-02-19 15:24:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by TNA
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit. The
previous owner had partially built the fuselage, but it is not finished.
I did not get the building manual, so i do not have much information of
this
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
kit.
What size of engine will be suitable? I have 3 engines that maybe will
fit;
Post by Jon-Magne Johansen
-SC 120 4-stroke
-21cc pertrol, weedeater conversion
-40cc pertol, chain saw conversion
Also, the aluminium wing joiners seems a bit flimsy. Is it a good idea to
replace them with some stronger/bigger tubes?
Hei Jon-Magne!
I have a Champ in similar state... I do have the the building manual though.
I could scan it if you're interrested.
Hi,
Could you supply me a copy of the Manual. I will cover any costs.
Best wishes
Graeme
sammyrod
2005-01-28 01:23:22 UTC
Permalink
I recently got hold of a Precedent Aeroncha Champ 1/4 scale kit.>>>>>>>
I fitted a 3W Twin methanol engine (2 x 24 cc) 5 hp.
Very realistic sound in it and enough power for glidertug.
For balancing I needed 150 gr. in the tailsection.
She's an oldie (1985) but still love her.
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