Discussion:
Spectra - Spirit??
(too old to reply)
intheswamp00
2004-07-11 15:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Well, after sitting up to 2:30am this morning(yawn!) searching Google Groups
I've basically come down to these two planes. The Spectra being motorized
and the Spirit un-motorized (specs listed below).

Looking at their specs, the Spectra has 50% more wing loading than the
Spirit, whch I interpret as being much better for thermaling. But, how are
these wing loading specs are arrived at? Are the specs figured with radio
equipment included? For example, the Spectra is motorized...is the wing
loading figuring with the batteries, motor, and all other electricals
included? Is the Spirit which has no electrical equipment installed in ARF
kit figured with radio equipment or without radio equipment? I guess what
I'm trying to figure out is...is wing loading specs determined/stated for
the complete, RTF state of a plane including all hardware and required
equipment?

In regards to the Spirit, what would be a good radio setup for it? I'd like
at least a 4-channel transmitter, nothing fancy, but something I can use
with other/later planes. Would mini or standard servos be best?


Thanks again! Ed (in south Alabama where the buzzards fly!)

Great Planes Spectra:
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 10.6 oz/sq ft(32g/sqdm2)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm2) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 3.1 lb (140g) Fuselage Length:37.5" (953mm)
Dihedral: 4-3/8"

Great Planes Spirit:
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 7 oz/sq ft(20g/sq dm)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 2 lb (910g) Fuselage Length: 39"(1000mm)
Casey Wilson
2004-07-11 17:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by intheswamp00
Well, after sitting up to 2:30am this morning(yawn!) searching Google Groups
I've basically come down to these two planes. The Spectra being motorized
and the Spirit un-motorized (specs listed below).
Looking at their specs, the Spectra has 50% more wing loading than the
Spirit, whch I interpret as being much better for thermaling. But, how are
these wing loading specs are arrived at?
Seems to me, the wing loading is not a 'spec' per se. It is
derived by dividing the flying weight by the area of wing to get a
quanitzation of weight per unit of wing area. The reason the Spectra has a
higher wing loading is because it is heavier -- when you factor in motor,
bigger batteries, etc..
From there, logic would indicate the Spirit, because it does not have
the load, will be the better 'floater' for riding thermals.
The Spectra is a fine airplane. Better than some and not as good as
others.
I am a glider purist. I don't and never have owned a powered-glider,
so I'm not the ultimate authority on ships with spinning things hanging on
the front.
In your original post, you mentioned a dearth of thermals in your area.
I challenge that. Thermal engines are any two adjacent surfaces on the
ground of different temperatures. A good example is a tennis court
surrounded by grass. The larger the delta-T the more energy in the thermal.
The buzzards you mentioned are a good clue. The average turkey buzzard
weighs more than 12 pounds. What is your Spectra going to weigh?

Have fun.
Post by intheswamp00
In regards to the Spirit, what would be a good radio setup for it? I'd like
at least a 4-channel transmitter, nothing fancy, but something I can use
with other/later planes. Would mini or standard servos be best?
Thanks again! Ed (in south Alabama where the buzzards fly!)
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 10.6 oz/sq ft(32g/sqdm2)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm2) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 3.1 lb (140g) Fuselage Length:37.5" (953mm)
Dihedral: 4-3/8"
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 7 oz/sq ft(20g/sq dm)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 2 lb (910g) Fuselage Length: 39"(1000mm)
intheswamp00
2004-07-13 01:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Howdy Casey. I think my wording was a little askew in my remark about the
wing-loading. I did take it to be that the Spirit would be the better
thermal flier, being lighter. I'm somewhat leaning towards the Spirit but
getting it up in the air has me concerned. Is a high start difficult to
make work for a beginner doing it on his own? Now, I know that the general
consensus is to go to a club somewhere and get an instructor, and I can see
the wisdom in that, but in my case time is very much at a premium...trying
to run a business by myself that my father, brother, and I ran just a very
few years ago... Things change quickly. I'm simply looking to grab some
time on the weekend, drive across the road to a hay field and (hopefully)
fly.

I fly kites some and have sailed some small sailboats in the past...I really
like the idea of unpowered flight...just the sound of the wind and air.

The area I have to fly in is about 45 acres of hayfield and it is also the
top of a large hill. It's basically in the center of a pine plantation with
the southside of the hayfield sloping down. Would you think there's enough
difference in temperature between these two surfaces to create thermals in a
somewhat consistent manner? The buzzards do seem to like the area.

In regards to the buzzards...it seems I'm on a constant look-out for them
here lately!

Ed
--
Post by intheswamp00
Post by intheswamp00
Well, after sitting up to 2:30am this morning(yawn!) searching Google
Groups
Post by intheswamp00
I've basically come down to these two planes. The Spectra being motorized
and the Spirit un-motorized (specs listed below).
Looking at their specs, the Spectra has 50% more wing loading than the
Spirit, whch I interpret as being much better for thermaling. But, how
are
Post by intheswamp00
these wing loading specs are arrived at?
Seems to me, the wing loading is not a 'spec' per se. It is
derived by dividing the flying weight by the area of wing to get a
quanitzation of weight per unit of wing area. The reason the Spectra has a
higher wing loading is because it is heavier -- when you factor in motor,
bigger batteries, etc..
From there, logic would indicate the Spirit, because it does not have
the load, will be the better 'floater' for riding thermals.
The Spectra is a fine airplane. Better than some and not as good as
others.
I am a glider purist. I don't and never have owned a powered-glider,
so I'm not the ultimate authority on ships with spinning things hanging on
the front.
In your original post, you mentioned a dearth of thermals in your area.
I challenge that. Thermal engines are any two adjacent surfaces on the
ground of different temperatures. A good example is a tennis court
surrounded by grass. The larger the delta-T the more energy in the thermal.
The buzzards you mentioned are a good clue. The average turkey buzzard
weighs more than 12 pounds. What is your Spectra going to weigh?
Have fun.
Post by intheswamp00
In regards to the Spirit, what would be a good radio setup for it? I'd
like
Post by intheswamp00
at least a 4-channel transmitter, nothing fancy, but something I can use
with other/later planes. Would mini or standard servos be best?
Thanks again! Ed (in south Alabama where the buzzards fly!)
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 10.6 oz/sq ft(32g/sqdm2)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm2) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 3.1 lb (140g) Fuselage Length:37.5"
(953mm)
Post by intheswamp00
Dihedral: 4-3/8"
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 7 oz/sq ft(20g/sq dm)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 2 lb (910g) Fuselage Length: 39"(1000mm)
Casey Wilson
2004-07-13 03:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by intheswamp00
Howdy Casey. I think my wording was a little askew in my remark about the
wing-loading. I did take it to be that the Spirit would be the better
thermal flier, being lighter. I'm somewhat leaning towards the Spirit but
getting it up in the air has me concerned. Is a high start difficult to
make work for a beginner doing it on his own? Now, I know that the general
consensus is to go to a club somewhere and get an instructor, and I can see
the wisdom in that, but in my case time is very much at a premium...trying
to run a business by myself that my father, brother, and I ran just a very
few years ago... Things change quickly. I'm simply looking to grab some
time on the weekend, drive across the road to a hay field and (hopefully)
fly.
I fly kites some and have sailed some small sailboats in the past...I really
like the idea of unpowered flight...just the sound of the wind and air.
The area I have to fly in is about 45 acres of hayfield and it is also the
top of a large hill. It's basically in the center of a pine plantation with
the southside of the hayfield sloping down. Would you think there's enough
difference in temperature between these two surfaces to create thermals in a
somewhat consistent manner? The buzzards do seem to like the area.
In regards to the buzzards...it seems I'm on a constant look-out for them
here lately!
My thought is the thermals will be generated by the temperature
differences between the hayfield and the piney woods (Texas Talk).
If the hill is more than just a knob, like maybe a ridgeback, and if the
wind blows mostly into the side of the ridge and not parallel, you might
have a good slope soaring chance. Here again, if the winds are just light
breezes, the Spirit will work best. On the other hands, if the breezes are
enough to fly a stunt kite, the heavier Spectra might be the best. It
depends on the energy involved. You can always add ballast to the Spirit. I
carry a few Bull Durham bags of lead shot in my kit. I once saw a flyer tape
a 12-inch pipe wrench to the bottom of his glider to make it heavy enought
to fly off a cliff in California.
The answer to the Hi-Start question revolves around your experience. You
haven't said anything about that, but your first post hints of some exposure
to the hobby. If you don't some experience, the first launch will rapidly
fill your bladder. You can expect the ship to bolt almost straight up when
you turn loose! Don't get trapped into thinking you'll just pull it back a
little bit the first couple of times. Without enough energy in the launch,
the hook won't release and a crash is almost inevitable.
I know you've done a lot of looking at the Spirit and Spectra and they
are fine ships. I have three Spirits (well, one that's flyable, anyway). But
have you considered a foamie, an EPP glider? The basic indestructability of
a foamie makes it well worth the extra cost of another ship. My grandson
ploughed my TG-3 straight in from about 40 feet up. I straighten the wings
and launched it a minute later. I've bounced it off hockey goal posts and
fence post and a utility pole. It is the ugliest ship at the field, but it
still flies.
I've seen a lot of discouraged newcomers spend more time repairing
gas-bags than flying them. It happened to me. I was ready to quit but my son
wouldn't let me. He kept repairing the wings, gluing on the rudders,
splicing the horizontal stabilizers and dragging me back to the field. We
were doing it alone, without an instructor to help. If we'd had a foamie,
we'd have had a lot more fun, a lot quicker.
That said, the Spectra will probably suit you better than the Spirit to
start with.
By the way, the thermals the buzzards are riding are being created up
wind from where they are. The higher they are and the stronger the breeze
the more the thermal tilts downwind. Go upwind to find the thermal at the
ground level.

Have Fun!
intheswamp00
2004-07-15 02:22:57 UTC
Permalink
Piney woods. Yelp, that's Alabama talk, too...just some folks don't
understand it.<g> The difference in temps may actually have a seasonal
variance, too. When the grass dies in the winter and lightens it's color
the difference in temps of the dark green pines and the dead grass should
create a larger difference. ???

Well, the site has the slope to the south, prevailing winds come from the
SW. There's a long bottom running in the...bottom. The bottom is aligned a
touch SW so the winds do appear to have a channel that they can follow to
the small ridge. In flying the stunt kites, the crest of the ridge is the
best area for some fun. Good wind there...when there's wind. More wind in
spring and fall.

Now, as for as wind goes...it's sporadic here in south Alabama...wouldn't be
a good place for RE windpower. This summer has been rather turbulent with
the weather systems that we've had...thunderstorms, etc.,. I guess, as far
as wind goes, disregarding approaching storms, we have as a rule mostly
gentle winds...much lighter than gulf/ocean breezes.

My experience is VERY limited. Last Sunday I flew a "Shun Da Accipiter
Badius" that I got off eBay. Not your quality plane, mind you, but it flew!
Actually it flew the first time I launched it, but of course not knowing
what I was doing it was on the ground pretty quick. I launched several
times more and had some minor groundings. It was went I got a bit higher
that the problems started.

The first time I pulled the nose out of the ground and got the dirt off the
prop I noticed a little compression damage and the canopy had popped off.
But, even with the canopy off we launched again. This time I flew it around
the field for probably 5 minutes and then started gaining altitude. I was
beginning to get the knack of it...yeah boy, you can do it!

About that time I must have got into the upper airstream....musta been at
least 30 miles high! But, I hit turbulence and the un-canopied battery
jumped out of place and was hanging underneath the plane. Immediately I
started hollering MAYDAY MAYDAY ...___... ...___... and though kinda
awkward, continued to fly. But, alas, we hit more strong wind...the reknown
"Accipiter Badius" bowed it's wing back like a hawk going in for a chipmunk
and it was "EJECT EJECT!!!".

Too late...the plane started a semi-spiraled nose dive, just screaming to
spear the ground...and it did. Ever notice how a plane sticking nose first
into the ground kinda looks like a tombstone cross? Flying was over with
my Chinese plane for the day...one of the battery leads had been snatched
loose from the battery pack. Got back home, glued some of the styrofoam
packing innards back together, resoldered the battery lead, straightened
out some of the crumpled fuse, and cleaned the dirt and grass out of the
prop. Still need to put some strapping tape on the wings and it'll be ready
for the weekend...my kite-flying buddy is dropping in for the weekend! :)

Now why I made you read through all of that, I don't know, I'm a grown
man...maybe I've been at work to long. But, that's my flying experience. I
think most of my problem was in a newbie over-controlling. I figure I can
fly that plane into the ground (that didn't sound good and besides I've
already done that a time or two) before I put a nicer one in the air. I
guess you could say that I bought this little plane figuring it's finite
life expectancy.

I probably should have looked a little further before I bought the Shun Da
and looked harder at the foamies, but hopefully the plane will live long
enough for me to get the hang of things.

Well, I'm leaning towards the Spectra...it seems more simple than using the
high start, but yet the use of the high start sounds interesting, too.
Thanks for the tip on using the high-start...I had thought just what you
mentioned..."I can pull it back just a little bit to see how it works...".
Wow, that would have been rather, er, amusing is not the word I'm looking
for, but I think you know what I mean.

Sounds like you've got a good son...and one that definitely wanted to keep
Dad interested! :)

I think your right on your thoughts about the Spectra suiting me better. I
can start out easy with powered flight figuring out manuvering and then
start working on my gliding and chasing thermals. Yelp, I've about come to
the same conclusion.

Thanks a lot for the tip on the thermals tilting...I hadn't thought about
that.

Now comes the question of....

With the Spectra what type of radio/servo system would be best? Standard
or mini servos? Best places to buy the electronics at? I really wouldn't
mind getting a fairly good radio...4-5 channel in case I decide to use it
with other planes down the road, but nothing extravagant. For now, I'm
figuring on the ARF.

Thanks,
Ed
(the crumpled accipter will fly again!)
--
Post by intheswamp00
Post by intheswamp00
Howdy Casey. I think my wording was a little askew in my remark about the
wing-loading. I did take it to be that the Spirit would be the better
thermal flier, being lighter. I'm somewhat leaning towards the Spirit
but
Post by intheswamp00
getting it up in the air has me concerned. Is a high start difficult to
make work for a beginner doing it on his own? Now, I know that the
general
Post by intheswamp00
consensus is to go to a club somewhere and get an instructor, and I can
see
Post by intheswamp00
the wisdom in that, but in my case time is very much at a
premium...trying
Post by intheswamp00
Post by intheswamp00
to run a business by myself that my father, brother, and I ran just a very
few years ago... Things change quickly. I'm simply looking to grab some
time on the weekend, drive across the road to a hay field and (hopefully)
fly.
I fly kites some and have sailed some small sailboats in the past...I
really
Post by intheswamp00
like the idea of unpowered flight...just the sound of the wind and air.
The area I have to fly in is about 45 acres of hayfield and it is also
the
Post by intheswamp00
top of a large hill. It's basically in the center of a pine plantation
with
Post by intheswamp00
the southside of the hayfield sloping down. Would you think there's
enough
Post by intheswamp00
difference in temperature between these two surfaces to create thermals
in
Post by intheswamp00
a
Post by intheswamp00
somewhat consistent manner? The buzzards do seem to like the area.
In regards to the buzzards...it seems I'm on a constant look-out for them
here lately!
My thought is the thermals will be generated by the temperature
differences between the hayfield and the piney woods (Texas Talk).
If the hill is more than just a knob, like maybe a ridgeback, and if the
wind blows mostly into the side of the ridge and not parallel, you might
have a good slope soaring chance. Here again, if the winds are just light
breezes, the Spirit will work best. On the other hands, if the breezes are
enough to fly a stunt kite, the heavier Spectra might be the best. It
depends on the energy involved. You can always add ballast to the Spirit. I
carry a few Bull Durham bags of lead shot in my kit. I once saw a flyer tape
a 12-inch pipe wrench to the bottom of his glider to make it heavy enought
to fly off a cliff in California.
The answer to the Hi-Start question revolves around your experience. You
haven't said anything about that, but your first post hints of some exposure
to the hobby. If you don't some experience, the first launch will rapidly
fill your bladder. You can expect the ship to bolt almost straight up when
you turn loose! Don't get trapped into thinking you'll just pull it back a
little bit the first couple of times. Without enough energy in the launch,
the hook won't release and a crash is almost inevitable.
I know you've done a lot of looking at the Spirit and Spectra and they
are fine ships. I have three Spirits (well, one that's flyable, anyway). But
have you considered a foamie, an EPP glider? The basic indestructability of
a foamie makes it well worth the extra cost of another ship. My grandson
ploughed my TG-3 straight in from about 40 feet up. I straighten the wings
and launched it a minute later. I've bounced it off hockey goal posts and
fence post and a utility pole. It is the ugliest ship at the field, but it
still flies.
I've seen a lot of discouraged newcomers spend more time repairing
gas-bags than flying them. It happened to me. I was ready to quit but my son
wouldn't let me. He kept repairing the wings, gluing on the rudders,
splicing the horizontal stabilizers and dragging me back to the field. We
were doing it alone, without an instructor to help. If we'd had a foamie,
we'd have had a lot more fun, a lot quicker.
That said, the Spectra will probably suit you better than the Spirit to
start with.
By the way, the thermals the buzzards are riding are being created up
wind from where they are. The higher they are and the stronger the breeze
the more the thermal tilts downwind. Go upwind to find the thermal at the
ground level.
Have Fun!
Casey Wilson
2004-07-15 04:34:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by intheswamp00
Now why I made you read through all of that, I don't know, I'm a grown
man...maybe I've been at work to long. But, that's my flying experience.
I
Post by intheswamp00
think most of my problem was in a newbie over-controlling. I figure I can
fly that plane into the ground (that didn't sound good and besides I've
already done that a time or two) before I put a nicer one in the air. I
guess you could say that I bought this little plane figuring it's finite
life expectancy.
I probably should have looked a little further before I bought the Shun Da
and looked harder at the foamies, but hopefully the plane will live long
enough for me to get the hang of things.
Great report, Ed, and a great beginning. That's what most of it is all
about. Keep having fun 'cause the minute you take yourself serious...
well....
Tell my you did a dozen or so hand tosses and balanced the plane on its
spec CG before you ever pushed the throttle forward and made the prop spin.
You did, didn't you?
Post by intheswamp00
With the Spectra what type of radio/servo system would be best? Standard
or mini servos? Best places to buy the electronics at? I really wouldn't
mind getting a fairly good radio...4-5 channel in case I decide to use it
with other planes down the road, but nothing extravagant. For now, I'm
figuring on the ARF.
Thanks,
Ed
Truth is, I don't think you should start with the best, basic is what
you want to start with. Most of us have more than a couple of transmitters.
In that department, I suggest starting with a basic 4-channel, maybe even on
the upper price side. It's a good idea to get one with a 'buddy' connector.
That way you can practice on your PC with any of several flight simulators.
When you step up the line in aircraft, then step up to the Xmitters with
bells and whistles.
I always look for a receiver that will operate all the functions in my
airplane and no more. That receiver will generally live in that ship for as
long as it or the ship lasts.
It will be a long time, a really long time, before your flying skills
become so good and consistent that the negligible weight difference between
good inexpensive servos and micro-hitorque will make a difference. I am a
great proponent of the KISS principle.
I'll get flamed for saying this, but Tower online is a good source --
presuming you don't have a local hobby shop within ten miles. If you do,
then shop there. It may cost more, but the response and future service will
be worth it.
intheswamp00
2004-07-18 21:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Yelp, Casey, I had fun. The tinkering around with it before flying was fun
and then the "figuring out what I was doing" was fun. I love to tinker with
things...though I haven't operated in a while I'm a General class ham radio
operator...KF4KRV. Lately I've been tinkering with alternative energy for a
remote cabin we're building. The ham radio is for fun, the AE...well it's
kind of a necessity for the cabin, but I enjoy it. You mean there's folks
that actually work with RC planes "not for fun"???

I must honestly report that I didn't do any unpowered hand tosses. I gave a
little power to begin with and the plane flew suprisingly well (straight
line). I did check the little Chinese plane for the center of gravity and
made sure it was where I'd read the standard location was for it...1/3
behind the leading edge...the instructions stated nothing about CG. I
basically I rested the wings on the tips of my fingers at the plane's
"assumed" CGI and it looked to be balanced pretty good. I also checked the
control surfaces and trimmed them out using the clevises on the the control
rods.

Well, this weekend after a day in the swamp (building a small cabin down
there), my brother-in-law, nephew, and myself took the Chinese plane out
to the hayfield. Basically crashed and crashed. This appears to be a
plane that can't take much wind at all. When it'd fly into the wind it'd
take on the "hawk attack" attitude by folding it's wings backwards, it would
thenbegin an out of control descent. I'm going to do some gluing and
straightening, solder in a new on/off switch that came apart and take it
back out at a *calm* time and see what happens. I'm beginning to wonder if
using the transmitter might be harmful to my future flying....the controls
are: elevator=left stick, rudder=right stick, and a little up/down switch
located on the back of the righthand side runs the throttle/power. Not
exactly a regular transmitter.

Posting a new question to the group about transmitters. Basically looking
at the JR XF421EX and looking for opinions on it. In one setup it comes
with four 537 servos and the 610 receiver. In another setup it comes with
two 241 servos (micro) and a 610M receiver. The 2-servo setup runs about
$20 less than the 4-servo. What do you think?

Thanks,
Ed
Post by Casey Wilson
Post by intheswamp00
Now why I made you read through all of that, I don't know, I'm a grown
man...maybe I've been at work to long. But, that's my flying experience.
I
Post by intheswamp00
think most of my problem was in a newbie over-controlling. I figure I can
fly that plane into the ground (that didn't sound good and besides I've
already done that a time or two) before I put a nicer one in the air. I
guess you could say that I bought this little plane figuring it's finite
life expectancy.
I probably should have looked a little further before I bought the Shun Da
and looked harder at the foamies, but hopefully the plane will live long
enough for me to get the hang of things.
Great report, Ed, and a great beginning. That's what most of it is all
about. Keep having fun 'cause the minute you take yourself serious...
well....
Tell my you did a dozen or so hand tosses and balanced the plane on its
spec CG before you ever pushed the throttle forward and made the prop spin.
You did, didn't you?
Post by intheswamp00
With the Spectra what type of radio/servo system would be best?
Standard
Post by Casey Wilson
Post by intheswamp00
or mini servos? Best places to buy the electronics at? I really
wouldn't
Post by intheswamp00
mind getting a fairly good radio...4-5 channel in case I decide to use it
with other planes down the road, but nothing extravagant. For now, I'm
figuring on the ARF.
Thanks,
Ed
Truth is, I don't think you should start with the best, basic is what
you want to start with. Most of us have more than a couple of
transmitters.
Post by Casey Wilson
In that department, I suggest starting with a basic 4-channel, maybe even on
the upper price side. It's a good idea to get one with a 'buddy' connector.
That way you can practice on your PC with any of several flight simulators.
When you step up the line in aircraft, then step up to the Xmitters with
bells and whistles.
I always look for a receiver that will operate all the functions in my
airplane and no more. That receiver will generally live in that ship for as
long as it or the ship lasts.
It will be a long time, a really long time, before your flying skills
become so good and consistent that the negligible weight difference between
good inexpensive servos and micro-hitorque will make a difference. I am a
great proponent of the KISS principle.
I'll get flamed for saying this, but Tower online is a good source --
presuming you don't have a local hobby shop within ten miles. If you do,
then shop there. It may cost more, but the response and future service will
be worth it.
Foamaholic
2004-07-13 04:47:53 UTC
Permalink
I have had my Spectra for 13 years. Never had a Spirit.
The Spectra does thermal although I doubt as good as the Spirit.
You can't thermal very good if you can't get the plane up high enough.
I've used high starts with gliders and never got a thermal. Can't ge
it high enough up. I'm sure better sailplane pilots can.
I've had lots and lots of fun with my Spectra. Every time I fly it
know it will go up high, real high, and even if I don't find a therma
I still get at least a 15 minute glide back down.
I've recently upgraded to a Jeti 16/15/4 brushless motor and mor
recently to a lipo pack (TP 3s 2100) which saves 5.1 oz. of weight ove
the 8 cell 1700 nimih's . This combination basically shoots i
straight up, although I don't like to climb straight up so about hal
throttle is enough.
My plane ready to fly weighs about 48 oz

--
Foamaholi
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Thomas Koszuta
2004-07-13 19:24:27 UTC
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Wing loading is just the weight divided by the wing area. All up weight is
the only thing that really matters, so it includes an estimate of how much
the radio gear/motor, etc. weighs.

Low wing loading make a plane slower, and usually (but not always!) means
lower sink rate. Heavier planes are more stable in the wind and will run
farther and faster, opening up more days for thermalling. You can always
weigh down (ballast) a light plane to make it more appropriate for the days
conditions.

There are thermals everywhere, all year, (almost?) every day. You will fly
through many, many thermals before you begin to see how the plane reacts to
them and learn to ride them. Do not get discouraged. Find a local club and
watch someone while they are flying. Ask what the pilot saw when he begins
circling in lift. (Finding a club - http://www.modelaircraft.org then
Charter Club Locator - even the "power" guys probably have a few "outcasts"
who run sailplanes sometimes)

I have flown a Spirit many times. They are nice planes when properly
balanced and trimmed. Then will float when you need and run better than
most think. Just be careful if you fly low and upside down! OOPS.)

Electrics are nice because you do not have to bring out launch equipment,
but highstarting an unpowered glider to a 15 minute flight will leave you
feeling as high as your glider went. A fellow club member (with bad knees)
flies nothing but electric and has a nice Spectra that he regularly puts in
the air for half an hour at a time. The downside is that they fly faster
and are more difficult to land in tight spots. Important if you have a
field like ours.

A decent radio should have at least v-tail mixing available. FM is
preferable and most common. The Hitec Eclipse 7 is a nice 7 channel (hear
me out) with 7 model memories that will handle most of your needs for a long
time at a reasonable price. It comes with full NiCd rechargeable batteries
and a receiver and 4 servos. Don't worry about the minis or micros yet.
The little weight gain is not going to change it into a slug. I have
experience with the Eclipse, but other similar types are worth the extra
investment if you stay with us. I also have two Futaba 4 channel Skysport
Transmitters gathering dust! They do not progress into complicated models
well.
Post by intheswamp00
Well, after sitting up to 2:30am this morning(yawn!) searching Google Groups
I've basically come down to these two planes. The Spectra being motorized
and the Spirit un-motorized (specs listed below).
Looking at their specs, the Spectra has 50% more wing loading than the
Spirit, whch I interpret as being much better for thermaling. But, how are
these wing loading specs are arrived at? Are the specs figured with radio
equipment included? For example, the Spectra is motorized...is the wing
loading figuring with the batteries, motor, and all other electricals
included? Is the Spirit which has no electrical equipment installed in ARF
kit figured with radio equipment or without radio equipment? I guess what
I'm trying to figure out is...is wing loading specs determined/stated for
the complete, RTF state of a plane including all hardware and required
equipment?
In regards to the Spirit, what would be a good radio setup for it? I'd like
at least a 4-channel transmitter, nothing fancy, but something I can use
with other/later planes. Would mini or standard servos be best?
Thanks again! Ed (in south Alabama where the buzzards fly!)
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 10.6 oz/sq ft(32g/sqdm2)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm2) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 3.1 lb (140g) Fuselage Length:37.5" (953mm)
Dihedral: 4-3/8"
Wingspan: 78.5" (1995mm) Wing loading: 7 oz/sq ft(20g/sq dm)
Wing Area: 676 sq in (43.6sq dm) Aspect Ratio: 9:1
Weight: 2 lb (910g) Fuselage Length: 39"(1000mm)
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